It's Idiots Like This That Insult My And The Bible's Integrity

M

MR.KAZ

Lurker
Hello Members,

I watched a documentary today on the case of a young man who got the beat-down and eventually died alone strapped to a fence I believe,it angered me a little,so I decided to post this.This is a touchy subject,so if the Mods's decide to delete it,then I must respect their decision,but the topic I'm about to address I find,needs to be given as much attention,and discussion as humanly possible.

I personally,am not homosexual and I do not judge those who are(Although God tells us otherwise in the Bible.But that's very easy for him to say.)Those idiots who go around parading with their precious little signs that read "God hates "Fags" or "Gays will Go To Hell",or any other sickening phrases are allowed by law to voice their beliefs in reasonable manners,so although It sickens me,I have to deal with it.I am however,not bound by law to think their way either,so here it goes.

Normally,I try to bite my tongue and keep my contempt quiet for these mental midgets,but when they roam around with their fancy little signs with the material written on with some the above phrases I listed,not only insults my integrity as a believer in God,it also insults the integrity of the Bible and these dorks who misrepresent what it means,using it to justify their beliefs when they don't take the time to actually think and believe in what it's saying because most of them just skim over the material and take no time to realize it's sometimes not so "Cut n' Dry" as they think.

The Bible's meaning of man shall not lay down with man as he does woman,doesn't mean that God will send you to hell for being sexually attracted,and ultimately show their love and affection through intercourse.What 5 year child hops out of bed in the morning and decides that when I grow up,I'm going to be attracted to the opposite sex?That last time I checked I don't recall ever hearing of God sending one to Hell for loving another.

If this offends some people,I don't apologize.

God Bless,
KAZ
 
The Bible's meaning of man shall not lay down with man as he does woman,doesn't mean that God will send you to hell for being sexually attracted,and ultimately show their love and affection through intercourse.What 5 year child hops out of bed in the morning and decides that when I grow up,I'm going to be attracted to the opposite sex?That last time I checked I don't recall ever hearing of God sending one to Hell for loving another.
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Leviticus chapter 18 is pretty specific. God says don't do this or that, it means if you do, there will be consequences. Leviticus 18:22 specifically speaks about homosexuality. And last I checked, if God says "don't do" it means if you do, it's committing a sin, which is breaking God's laws.

I'll tread lightly, however, on this subject. As a Christian, I have every right to defend the Bible. I do not, however, have the right to judge another. Lord knows I have enough of my own problems.

I have a friend and coworker who is openly gay. We have spoken a few times about this. But I feel that friendship is a better witness to someone than bitter content. If I am wrong, oh well. Sometimes it's better to be wrong with the right intentions, than right with the wrong intentions.

I've said my peace as a member of this forum. I will say that as a mod, this subject had better not get out of hand. Opinions on both sides will be respected. We all know what may happen if the rules are broken.
 
When I was younger I used to argue with Christians about that issue. But, it became obvious that they weren't going to change their minds, and I was not going to change mine.

So I just let it go. Let people think what they want.
 
MR.KAZ said:
The Bible's meaning of man shall not lay down with man as he does woman,doesn't mean that God will send you to hell for being sexually attracted,and ultimately show their love and affection through intercourse.What 5 year child hops out of bed in the morning and decides that when I grow up,I'm going to be attracted to the opposite sex?That last time I checked I don't recall ever hearing of God sending one to Hell for loving another.
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No, "sins" aren't what land you in hell. Only disbelief does, but Leviticus is pretty clear on the punishment:

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
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Homicidal Cherry53 said:
No, "sins" aren't what land you in hell. Only disbelief does, but Leviticus is pretty clear on the
punishment:
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True. But if one hates God, they will do whatever they want. And usually it's things that God refers to as sin. If one loved God, they will want to obey Him and refrain from doing things that God refers to as sin.

Just like a thermometer can tell us if something is hot or cold, so can God's commands on whether one is a child of God or not.
 
Dart said:
Leviticus chapter 18 is pretty specific. God says don't do this or that, it means if you do, there will be consequences. Leviticus 18:22 specifically speaks about homosexuality. And last I checked, if God says "don't do" it means if you do, it's committing a sin, which is breaking God's laws.

I'll tread lightly, however, on this subject. As a Christian, I have every right to defend the Bible. I do not, however, have the right to judge another. Lord knows I have enough of my own problems.

I have a friend and coworker who is openly gay. We have spoken a few times about this. But I feel that friendship is a better witness to someone than bitter content. If I am wrong, oh well. Sometimes it's better to be wrong with the right intentions, than right with the wrong intentions.

I've said my peace as a member of this forum. I will say that as a mod, this subject had better not get out of hand. Opinions on both sides will be respected. We all know what may happen if the rules are broken.
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Hi Dart,

Respectfully,I find Leviticus places most emphasis on incest and adultery.It speaks of how homosexuality and how it is sinful and punishment will occur,but that doesn't mean eternal damnation,God is firm in his rules,but that doesn't mean he will not take into consideration the circumstances in which a sin is committed.If you were 12 year old child and you were sexually molested and abused by you own parents and other adults which a child needs in order to live and learn in order to survive,reaches a breaking point,and commits suicide because he is so messed up and can't handle it.I with all my heart believe there is no way God would punish that poor soul.Where is this child going to get the help he needs,when everyone that he needs and is supposed to trust,are the very ones that hurt him.God is merciful as well.I don't have children Dart,you do.Surely you know better than I ,what you would feel like if your kids felt that they couldn't depend on the very one that helped give them life.

We as humans don't break the laws of God,the laws break us.

Sincerely,
MR.KAZ
 
MR.KAZ said:
Hi Dart,

Respectfully,I find Leviticus places most emphasis on incest and adultery.It speaks of how homosexuality and how it is sinful and punishment will occur,but that doesn't mean eternal damnation,God is firm in his rules,but that doesn't mean he will not take into consideration the circumstances in which a sin is committed.If you were 12 year old child and you were sexually molested and abused by you own parents and other adults which a child needs in order to live and learn in order to survive,reaches a breaking point,and commits suicide because he is so messed up and can't handle it.I with all my heart believe there is no way God would punish that poor soul.Where is this child going to get the help he needs,when everyone that he needs and is supposed to trust,are the very ones that hurt him.God is merciful as well.I don't have children Dart,you do.Surely you know better than I ,what you would feel like if your kids felt that they couldn't depend on the very one that helped give them life.

We as humans don't break the laws of God,the laws break us.

Sincerely,
MR.KAZ
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I stick with my first answer. Like I said, Leviticus 18 is specific. It speaks about all sexual sin.

It speaks of how homosexuality and how it is sinful and punishment will occur,but that doesn't mean eternal damnation,God is firm in his rules,but that doesn't mean he will not take into consideration the circumstances in which a sin is committed.
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Yes. It speaks about how homosexuality is a sin. And yes, punishment will occur. But what do you mean it doesn't mean eternal damnation? The Bible says if you sin, it separates you from God. Pretty simple. And I'm not sure what you mean by saying "the circumstances" in which sin is committed.
 
MR.KAZ said:
Hi Dart,

Respectfully,I find Leviticus places most emphasis on incest and adultery.It speaks of how homosexuality and how it is sinful and punishment will occur,but that doesn't mean eternal damnation,God is firm in his rules,but that doesn't mean he will not take into consideration the circumstances in which a sin is committed.If you were 12 year old child and you were sexually molested and abused by you own parents and other adults which a child needs in order to live and learn in order to survive,reaches a breaking point,and commits suicide because he is so messed up and can't handle it.I with all my heart believe there is no way God would punish that poor soul.Where is this child going to get the help he needs,when everyone that he needs and is supposed to trust,are the very ones that hurt him.God is merciful as well.I don't have children Dart,you do.Surely you know better than I ,what you would feel like if your kids felt that they couldn't depend on the very one that helped give them life.

We as humans don't break the laws of God,the laws break us.

Sincerely,
MR.KAZ
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Eternal damnation or no, saying homosexuality should be a capital offense is a pretty dangerous thing.
 
Coach said:
How interesting that the bible thumper is a mod.

God forbid we contradict his precious book or we'll get censored no doubt.
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I've had many many long-winded discussions with Dart on religion, and never once was I censored.  The fact that you assume that he is a poor mod because of his religion is just blind prejudice on your part.
 
Coach said:
How interesting that the bible thumper is a mod.

God forbid we contradict his precious book or we'll get censored no doubt.
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For one, I was specifically using the Bible as a basis for my belief. I haven't found where I actually judged anyone. Assuming things is not a great way to make friends.

Welcome to the forums. I suggest reading the rules though.
 
Dart said:
I stick with my first answer. Like I said, Leviticus 18 is specific. It speaks about all sexual sin.

Yes. It speaks about how homosexuality is a sin. And yes, punishment will occur. But what do you mean it doesn't mean eternal damnation? The Bible says if you sin, it separates you from God. Pretty simple. And I'm not sure what you mean by saying "the circumstances" in which sin is committed.
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What I meant by circumstances is the position that poor child is put in,by not being cared for or loved by the very people he absolutely needs to survive,are doing things to cripple him mentally and physically.I didn't want to used this disturbing but true example of what I mean,but here it goes.Back in high school me and my fellow drinking buddy went to his brother's place who lives in an apartment building.We had to wait a little for him to get to the door because he was drunk.

In the next apartment we couldn't help overhearing what appeared to be a child screaming these words I'll never forget...."Daddy!,please don't tickle me there!,nuff said?
 
Sorry Kaz. But I don't see the case between homosexuality and the victim of sexual abuse. The case in Leviticus is one where someone willfully has homosexual relations. In the case of sexual abuse, my assumption would be that the consequences would be the same as those who commit rape.
 
Dart said:
Sorry Kaz. But I don't see the case between homosexuality and the victim of sexual abuse. The case in Leviticus is one where someone willfully has homosexual relations. In the case of sexual abuse, my assumption would be that the consequences would be the same as those who commit rape.
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It also says that God is merciful.God is not as anal as some think.Think about it Dart,what choice does this poor child have?His parents and other adults are abusing him,God is the only one he can turn to.Sure he call the police,tell a teacher,dial up "Kids Helphone".As sad as it is,when these people get involved,although their hearts are in the right place,taking a child out of the home,placing in a group home until decent people adopt him is causing mental chaos,and probably will need lifetime therapy.The child's innocent brain is corrupted.

If you were God would you punish him?
 
MR.KAZ said:
It also says that God is merciful.God is not as anal as some think.Think about it Dart,what choice does this poor child have?His parents and other adults are abusing him,God is the only one he can turn to.Sure he call the police,tell a teacher,dial up "Kids Helphone".As sad as it is,when these people get involved,although their hearts are in the right place,taking a child out of the home,placing in a group home until decent people adopt him is causing mental chaos,and probably will need lifetime therapy.The child's innocent brain is corrupted.

If you were God would you punish him?
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Still no parallel between someone who willfully sins and someone who is a victim of someone else's sin.
 
I know I am a bit late but I have to ask:

Why is the discussion on levitical beliefs? Are current Christians still followers of the Jewish Tradition. Does it still claim that we must stick to every law that was created during those times. I dont see people cutting thieves hands off the last time I checked. I dont see where the issue of homosexuality was ever brought up in the Bible ever again and downright stated as being woefully wrong.

If people are willing to openly lie and cheat and steal then I dont think there is really basis to any being sickened, or put off, or claiming that they dont believe the act of homesexuality. Either accept everything that was told to youu in these Levitcal traditions, or dont believe it at all. Dont pick and choose?
 
Starrynite said:
Why is the discussion on levitical beliefs? Are current Christians still followers of the Jewish Tradition. Does it still claim that we must stick to every law that was created during those times. I dont see people cutting thieves hands off the last time I checked. I dont see where the issue of homosexuality was ever brought up in the Bible ever again and downright stated as being woefully wrong.
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The Bible is supposed to be the handbook of Christianity, so to speak, and the Old Testament is part of it. There is no discrimination between Old and New Testament, as both are supposed to be the word of God. Why ignore one and embrace the other?
 
Why is the discussion on levitical beliefs? Are current Christians still followers of the Jewish Tradition. Does it still claim that we must stick to every law that was created during those times. I dont see people cutting thieves hands off the last time I checked. I dont see where the issue of homosexuality was ever brought up in the Bible ever again and downright stated as being woefully wrong.
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We are now under the Covenant of Grace. In other words, we don't uphold the Law to show that we love and trust God. We trust God and the Redemptive work of Christ Jesus to change us so that we don't want to sin. After all, in order to break any of God's laws, you have to be rebellious towards God in the first place.

If people are willing to openly lie and cheat and steal then I dont think there is really basis to any being sickened, or put off, or claiming that they don't believe the act of homesexuality. Either accept everything that was told to you in these Levitcal traditions, or don't believe it at all. Dont pick and choose?
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Exactly. It's all or nothing.

Homicidal Cherry53 said:
The Bible is supposed to be the handbook of Christianity, so to speak, and the Old Testament is part of it. There is no discrimination between Old and New Testament, as both are supposed to be the word of God. Why ignore one and embrace the other?
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Context is paramount.
 
Homicidal Cherry53 said:
The Bible is supposed to be the handbook of Christianity, so to speak, and the Old Testament is part of it. There is no discrimination between Old and New Testament, as both are supposed to be the word of God. Why ignore one and embrace the other?
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Well its not ignoring its the fact that the rules are being upheld in both cases. Why do todays Christians still not honor any of the Festivals of Harvest and Shelters, why do they not reframe from eating pork?

I think the Old Testament stands still to provide people with insight and remembrance of the constant faults of people and how the God that they believe can provide them with inspiration and hope when they are going through oppression and torture, but as a guide for rules, I think that with the bringing of Man Jesus in the New Testament definitely set the stage for the new rules that people should follow, love all, live a pure life in all possible ways, and seek constant repentance and acknowledge him. Isnt that what it is trying to do?
 
Starrynite said:
Well its not ignoring its the fact that the rules are being upheld in both cases. Why do todays Christians still not honor any of the Festivals of Harvest and Shelters, why do they not reframe from eating pork?

I think the Old Testament stands still to provide people with insight and remembrance of the constant faults of people and how the God that they believe can provide them with inspiration and hope when they are going through oppression and torture, but as a guide for rules, I think that with the bringing of Man Jesus in the New Testament definitely set the stage for the new rules that people should follow, love all, live a pure life in all possible ways, and seek constant repentance and acknowledge him. Isnt that what it is trying to do?
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God only knows. :lol
 
Im wondering why people would have such a stuanch uprighteousness to feel that the people are doing wrong that they must pickett fence to proclaim their point.
 
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