New book on Columbine touches on gaming connections

http://kotaku.com/5146097/new-columbine-book-touches-on-gaming-connections

Those kids really adored DOOM. Yet imho, if you can't separate fantasy from reality, then please get in touch with reality and seek help. Their obsession with violent games went to an extreme and I honestly have to roll my eyes on this one. I played DOOM to death back in the days of 1995, but this happened in 1999. By then, we had better games like QUAKE II. Why are they still playing DOOM on the PS1?!

The article was a good read, and does conclude:

Kass is clear to point out that while video games may have given the two "paths for their anger", with Postal providing potential inspiration and Doom a philosophy that helped inform Harris and Klebold's mentality, video games certainly weren't the cause.

"The video games did not cause their anger," Kass writes. "That came from elsewhere."

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I'd actually recommend giving that a good once over, pretty interesting stuff.

I still have trouble figuring out why it is Columbine remains such a "mystery" to some people. Honestly, its like some people out there never went to High School. There's more ***holes per square foot in that place than anywhere else on the earth, and they make people's lives miserable on a daily basis. Two kids in Columbine got tired of being pushed around, so they pushed back. Its not rocket science.

I'm not saying what they did was right in any respect, but I do understand why it happened. Its a tragedy, not a massacre, and its a tragedy for the two guys that carried it out too, not just their victims. I dunno, just boils my blood a little when they tried to discern the "root causes," and yet no one looks at how their peers treated them on a daily basis. I don't know all the facts about their specific case, but I do remember what High School was like. There were times when I thought my life would be infinitely better if certain people didn't exist, and I know there were times when other people thought that about me too. These 2 kids were just pushed past their breaking point...

Oh yeah, I firmly agree to the article. Just, the time frame of what games they played is what makes me giggle a bit, I'd rather be playing Golden Eye in 1999 than DOOM. I mean, I love DOOM, but back then, it would have been a different story!

stealth toilet said:

The article was a good read, and does conclude:
I'd actually recommend giving that a good once over, pretty interesting stuff.

I still have trouble figuring out why it is Columbine remains such a "mystery" to some people. Honestly, its like some people out there never went to High School. There's more ***holes per square foot in that place than anywhere else on the earth, and they make people's lives miserable on a daily basis. Two kids in Columbine got tired of being pushed around, so they pushed back. Its not rocket science.

I'm not saying what they did was right in any respect, but I do understand why it happened. Its a tragedy, not a massacre, and its a tragedy for the two guys that carried it out too, not just their victims. I dunno, just boils my blood a little when they tried to discern the "root causes," and yet no one looks at how their peers treated them on a daily basis. I don't know all the facts about their specific case, but I do remember what High School was like. There were times when I thought my life would be infinitely better if certain people didn't exist, and I know there were times when other people thought that about me too. These 2 kids were just pushed past their breaking point...

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No offense, but I find that to be complete and utter BS! Do some research, these kids weren't bullied nearly as bad as their parents and friends would have you believe. Also, only about 2 kids they killed were actual "jocks" or "bullies". They killed many girls, and kids who had never said a word to them. How you can even remotely portray them as victims sickens me. And even if they had been treated as badly as you seem to think they were, there is no excuse for what they did. It's like you're saying the punishment for bullying somebody should be death. These 2 kids were spoiled. They lived in very nice houses, drove nice vehicles, and yet they still chose to steal and cause trouble. Hardly victims if you ask me : The real and only victims here are the kids who were murdered by these nutjobs, their families, and the killers families.

Honestly, X2 has a point. It's like watching Malibu's Most Wanted from his perspective. Orange County, represent yo!

The biggest people to blame? Those three kids. If they weren't such social outcast, they wouldn't have been in that situation. Rebelling always sounds neat in the movies, but in reality, you're just hurting yourself by cutting yourself off from social behavior.

x2 said:

No offense, but I find that to be complete and utter BS! Do some research, these kids weren't bullied nearly as bad as their parents and friends would have you believe. Also, only about 2 kids they killed were actual "jocks" or "bullies". They killed many girls, and kids who had never said a word to them. How you can even remotely portray them as victims sickens me. And even if they had been treated as badly as you seem to think they were, there is no excuse for what they did. It's like you're saying the punishment for bullying somebody should be death. These 2 kids were spoiled. They lived in very nice houses, drove nice vehicles, and yet they still chose to steal and cause trouble. Hardly victims if you ask me : The real and only victims here are the kids who were murdered by these nutjobs, their families, and the killers families.

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I don't think Stealth meant to portray either as victims. He said that their actions were not justified, but every action has a cause. He was merely pointing out the cause, not trying to stir up sympathy for them.

I see the connections as plain as day. :

My eldest son plays videogames. And has never had any issues at school. I know that these "experts" would say my opinion doesn't matter because I'm not an "expert." But since I am a dad, I do have intimate knowledge on what affects the behavior of kids. Games does not have near the same affect that absentee parenting does. I blame these kids' parents. Spoiled kids in high class neighborhoods spell it out for me.

Bottom line is the real victims are the ones who died who had nothing to do with this alledged bullying.

Now if you'd excuse me, I need to get back to my book that links guns and violent crime to global warming. It's simply dripping with expert testimony.

x2 said:

And even if they had been treated as badly as you seem to think they were, there is no excuse for what they did. It's like you're saying the punishment for bullying somebody should be death.

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If I may quote myself:

stealth toilet said:

I'm not saying what they did was right in any respect...

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So no, it's not at all like I'm saying "the punishment for bullying should be death," nor am I trying to excuse what they did. I was just saying its really not hard to understand why and what could push a couple kids to that extreme.

x2 said:

Also, only about 2 kids they killed were actual "jocks" or "bullies".

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I never said anything about jocks or bullies, I was talking about people in High School. I even lumped myself in with those people. I don't consider myself to be a jock or a bully, but I know that in High School, I made people cry. I made people swear at me, I made people want to physically hurt me, and had things happened differently they very well may have. And the opposite is true, there were people who infuriated me to my utmost, and people who hurt me deeply. These kids at Columbine were not "freak" cases, in fact it was probably those same misunderstandings and labels that drove them to think, behave, and act in the way they did. Stuff like that happens in High School all the time, its a miracle school shootings don't happen more often then they do.

No High School student body is ever completely innocent when something like this happens. No one deserved to die, and violence was not (and in my opinion is never) the answer, but for anyone whose been through High School you know there were times you deserved to feel the pain you inflicted on someone else. So all of the "innocent" people who were hurt or killed in that incident... they didn't deserve to experience that, no, but the student body as a whole was guilty of failing those two kids at some level by making them outcasts.

Homicidal Cherry53 said:

I don't think Stealth meant to portray either as victims. He said that their actions were not justified, but every action has a cause. He was merely pointing out the cause, not trying to stir up sympathy for them.

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More or less. Not trying to stir up sympathy, no, but empathy, yeah. Put yourself in the shoes of those kids, and ask yourself what it would take to bring you to the point they were at. If you're honest with yourself, I think you'll find their positions were not so removed from your own. Not excusable/condonable/acceptable/etc., but easily comprehensible.

stealth toilet said:

If I may quote myself:

So no, it's not at all like I'm saying "the punishment for bullying should be death," nor am I trying to excuse what they did. I was just saying its really not hard to understand why and what could push a couple kids to that extreme.

I never said anything about jocks or bullies, I was talking about people in High School. I even lumped myself in with those people. I don't consider myself to be a jock or a bully, but I know that in High School, I made people cry. I made people swear at me, I made people want to physically hurt me, and had things happened differently they very well may have. And the opposite is true, there were people who infuriated me to my utmost, and people who hurt me deeply. These kids at Columbine were not "freak" cases, in fact it was probably those same misunderstandings and labels that drove them to think, behave, and act in the way they did. Stuff like that happens in High School all the time, its a miracle school shootings don't happen more often then they do.

No High School student body is ever completely innocent when something like this happens. No one deserved to die, and violence was not (and in my opinion is never) the answer, but for anyone whose been through High School its not difficult to understand why violence would appear to be an option.

More or less. Not trying to stir up sympathy, no, but empathy, yeah. Put yourself in the shoes of those kids, and ask yourself what it would take to bring you to the point they were at. If you're honest with yourself, I think you'll find their positions were not so removed from your own. Not excusable/condonable/acceptable/etc., but easily comprehensible.

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I am sorry for any misunderstandings. I see where you are coming from, as I have been on both the giving and receiving end of "bullying". I guess I just have always felt like it was just a natural part of growing up, so it is sad when it is taken to such extremes. I have horrible memories of the times I was bullied, but killing the kid never once crossed my mind. Now, ganging up on him with my friends and jumping him sounded good, but it never happened. It's funny because once I was done with highschool, I realized so much of the crap that goes on during those 4 years really doesn't matter in the real world. For example so many kids who were "nerds" or "outcasts" are doing extremely well for themselves now, and a lot of the "cool" kids are doing the same crap they did in highschool. The point I am trying to make is that it is just 4 years of your life, and while it may seem like hell at the time, it has no real relevance to the real world. So I do personally have a hard time understanding how anybody could kill somebody over bullying. Sure, I could see jumping them, egging their house/car, slashing their tires, etc...but killing them? It's just not worth throwing your life away for some people you will never see again in your life once HS is done. But at that age kids do not realize that, so I think parents and teachers need to do their best to help kids get through it. Sad stuff any way ya put it!

Hey All,

I'm not proud of it,but when I was in Elementary School I was picked on,even from some foreign exchange student that couldn't speak English very well!
Since my Elementary School"(Grades 1-6)was only a half mile down the road from Junior High,the bullies ended up there as well.It wasn't until about grade 8,when I was relocated to a Junior High uptown.

The uptown students grew up a lot tougher than me,some students had only one parent,and some had abusive parents.This forced these poor souls to grow up fast,which is a shame.I'll tell you one thing,I was scared to death of these students,they were a lot tougher than I was because they had a tougher life.I did however,for the first time in my life learn to stand up for myself,and they respected that,therefore gaining some friends,and acceptance.

I don't mean to sound cold,but video games weren't the reason for these two to resort to murder.They had other options,they just didn't have the control.I understand their anger,but guns are simply not the answer.If bullies and others that purposely give you hard time know they have a punch in the face coming every time they decide to make your life a living hell,they might back off.

I understand that fighting is frowned upon,and some people say it doesn't solve anything are half right,scrapping might leave you with your share of blood on the ground,but at least you stood up for yourself,earned some respect,and no life sentence in prison(Had they not killed themselves).I'm sorry,these boys knew how to load and shoot a gun,they knew exactly the dire situation they were creating,and the end result.

It's 2009,trouble finds you.We don't live on "Sesame Street" anymore,and some never had the choice.

God Bless,
MR.KAZ

x2 said:

The point I am trying to make is that it is just 4 years of your life, and while it may seem like hell at the time, it has no real relevance to the real world.

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That's pretty much it right there. Keeping this perspective during High School is a key component of getting through it. I think one of the central differences between 90% of people in High School, and the rest who end up hurting others or themselves, is realizing what you just said.

They were copying the mass murders committed by grown men in the '80s and early '90s in workplaces, restaurants, and other public arenas. Those men never played Doom, of course, and I'll bet most of them never played a video game in their life. Boys emulate men and the rest is history.