Short Speech on Nintendo's "kiddy look"

fhqwhgads said:
Yes, clearly selling several million copies isn't huge at all.

That's not what he's referring to. Wii Fit technically doesn't fall under the general idea of a video game that the average gamer picks up. If a company like Square-Enix claimed that had a a new huge title in the works (outside of Final Fantasy), would the first thought in your mind be "Oh, I wonder if it's a game based around exercise?". You'd be more likely to think they came up with a new RPG. I may be assuming, but I find that highly unlikely to any gamer or non-gamer that if a company has something huge to show, that it'd be a game based around exercise and staying fit.

I'm pretty sure everyone here can agree that Nintendo has yet to come up with anything fairly new, major, and a best selling franchise, outside of Brain Age and Wii Fit. Sakurai himself was even displeased when he found that he only had a handful of characters that were actually new to put into Super Smash Brothers Brawl. Pikmin is years old.

Nintendo can keep up with what they're doing with their older franchises, but it wouldn't put them in a coffin and nail it shut if they came up with a darker themed franchise.
 
Nova said:
That's not what he's referring to. Wii Fit technically doesn't fall under the general idea of a video game that the average gamer picks up. If a company like Square-Enix claimed that had a a new huge title in the works (outside of Final Fantasy), would the first thought in your mind be "Oh, I wonder if it's a game based around exercise?". You'd be more likely to think they came up with a new RPG. I may be assuming, but I find that highly unlikely to any gamer or non-gamer that if a company has something huge to show, that it'd be a game based around exercise and staying fit.

I'm pretty sure everyone here can agree that Nintendo has yet to come up with anything fairly new, major, and a best selling franchise, outside of Brain Age and Wii Fit. Sakurai himself was even displeased when he found that he only had a handful of characters that were actually new to put into Super Smash Brothers Brawl. Pikmin is years old.

Nintendo can keep up with what they're doing with their older franchises, but it wouldn't put them in a coffin and nail it shut if they came up with a darker themed franchise.

HELLO disaster: day of crisis / advance wars days of ruins / any freaking fire emblem
 
Zidart said:
HELLO disaster: day of crisis / advance wars days of ruins / any freaking fire emblem

Fire Emblem is from 1990 (18 years old). Advance Wars is from 2001(7 years old). Notice that I said new franchises.

Disaster: Day of Crisis has me intrigued, though.
 
Zidart said:
i completely disagree with the statment mai just quoted, reason being that there is indeed many games on the wii that suit my need of hardcore gaming (and i already mentioned them thousands of times before) and not ALL nintendo games have a juvenile gameplay, in fact the only one that would fit in that category would be wii sports/fit

I agree with you. You and I both disagree with the article which states that Nintendo should continue focusing on making games for inexperienced gamers as that is their role in the industry: a role that must and can only be filled by Nintendo. It seems apparent that you feel Nintendo has provided much to appeal to the hardcore gaming audience, and that this has in turn made you feel validated in your ownership of the Wii. And so it should, although the article tries to imply otherwise. Unless I have misinterpreted it, which is always possible; probable even. :lol

The article more or less says Nintendo needs to keep focusing on simple and fun games to bring in new audiences and expand the market, at which point Nintendo will leave retaining these new gamers up to Sony and Microsoft whose roles are to provide more challenging and engrossing game experiences. Essentially the article proposes the idea that the industry is fractured, with each of the big players fulfilling one part of a bigger picture that sustains the industry, and therefore it is in everyone's best interests that Nintendo maintains this status quo. I'm saying this is not the case, that the industry is not fractured into the roles the article speaks of. I contend further that if it were segmented as the article proposes, Nintendo would not be irreplaceable in that role. Rather I am saying that the big three should all focus on both expanding the market and retaining it, and that the best way to do that is with good games; not simple ones, or dumbed down ones, or anything of that sort. And by what you just said, Zidart, Nintendo has recognized this with the games you have mentioned on numerous accounts. So if the article is painting an accurate picture of the industry, Nintendo is failing in it, and clearly this is not the case.

But the console still has a long way to go.

Zidart said:
HELLO disaster: day of crisis / advance wars days of ruins / any freaking fire emblem

I can't speak on day of crisis, and I haven't personally played any Fire Emblem since the GBA one, but in terms of Advance Wars I wouldn't call that game "dark." The style of the newest one was grittier, but the dialogue and plot of the campaign was aimed at a younger audience, ages 10-14 I would say. And there is still only cartoony violence. When a unit is destroyed they simply disappear. There is no blood, or gore, or anything visual that would make it appear as though people are dieing in these battles. The game still shy's away from mature themes, like the brutality of war, death, and so on. I would agree it is darker than its predecessors, but once again, it still has a long way to go from being compared alongside other war strategy games. But I do agree it is a game that could gain and retain gamers, by basing its strategy on principles everyone understands (infantry<tanks<bombers, and so on) and applying its own take on on the subject (turn based, economies, CO Powers). I got into the game because I'm a huge World War History buff and I wanted to see how real world strategies translated into the game. I keep playing the game, and buying new versions, because these strategies translate so well.
 
stealth toilet said:
I can't speak on day of crisis, and I haven't personally played any Fire Emblem since the GBA one, but in terms of Advance Wars I wouldn't call that game "dark." The style of the newest one was grittier, but the dialogue and plot of the campaign was aimed at a younger audience, ages 10-14 I would say. And there is still only cartoony violence. When a unit is destroyed they simply disappear. There is no blood, or or gore, or anything visual that would make it appear as though people are dieing in these battles. The game still shy's away from mature themes, like the brutality of war, death, and so on. I would agree it is darker than its predecessors, but once again, it still has a long way to go from being compared alongside other war strategy games.

The fact that these games don't have blood or gore doesn't make them aimed at a younger audience. Advance Wars obviously never aimed (speaking from my experiences with the earlier ones, as I haven't played the newest one) to create a story that would fly over the heads of younger players or include themes that usually aren't considered appropriate for younger players but this does not mean it is aimed at younger players. Advance Wars (and Fire Emblem as they are incredibly similar in gameplay style) has incredibly deep and complicated gameplay that requires you to carefully balance what units you buy and how you position them. It's a lot for anyone to just jump into. Now, give this complex, difficult game to a 10 year old kid a and you likely have a recipe for a broken DS/GBA. (I know from experience, as my younger cousin once hurled my GBA across the room out of frustration with Advance Wars) The truth of the matter is that Advance Wars (and especially the newest Fire Emblem, which I hear is quite literally almost impossible) can't be marketed to the majority of the younger market because parts of the game are too difficult for anyone but a longtime strategy gamer or a veteran of the series to beat.

Basically, it is difficulty, not adult themes that makes it hard for the series to appeal to a younger audience.
 
not only that, the fact that in fire emblem games a character dies without ways of coming back is not a theme you really want to put in a kids head, specially with the heavy plot that fire emblem games carry, filled with heavy themese like medieval political intrigue, war, and demonic arts (specially in sacred stones). heck even genocide (fire emblem radiant dawn and....no wait all of them have certain kind of genocide)

heck ike's father killed ike's mom when he went berserk because of a demonic medallion and they even show the moment where he stabs her right in the stomach
 
I would just like to see Nintendo use some of their creative genius to make something outside of what they normally do.

If they can come up with great games like Brawl, Metroid, Zelda, Super Mario Galaxy, etc. don't you wonder what they could do with an rpg? A true FPS? Do they avoid those kind of games because they truly don't feel qualified to make them, or because of some family friendly image they think they have to uphold?

If they are not willing to do it themselves, they should spend some of their profit to engage companies that will do it, and more importantly, do it right. Put the money out there for exclusives; not just to get the rights, but to do proper advertising.

I think what bothers me most is they seem content with people putting shovelware on the Wii.
 
Yeah, and even though there's a few....slightly mature themed games...like Fire Emblem and others....that's only a few out of the hundreds of games out for the Wii.
 
Strubes said:
Yeah, and even though there's a few....slightly mature themed games...like Fire Emblem and others....that's only a few out of the hundreds of games out for the Wii.

doesn't matter there still is, who cares if there's bad games as long as there's good ones (like with the ps2)
 
Zidart said:
doesn't matter there still is, who cares if there's bad games as long as there's good ones (like with the ps2)

I'm talking about mature games, not good games. And also, like many others have said, there were too many good games for the PS2 for the bad ones to really stick out. The same unfortunately, cannot be said for the Wii. But that's for another discussion.
 
Strubes said:
I'm talking about mature games, not good games. And also, like many others have said, there were too many good games for the PS2 for the bad ones to really stick out. The same unfortunately, cannot be said for the Wii. But that's for another discussion.

same thing there's even more E and T games on the ps2 than M rated games. and that can be said about the wii but each one to their own
 
Zidart said:
same thing there's even more E and T games on the ps2 than M rated games. and that can be said about the wii but each one to their own

Yeah...but the PS2 has what I'd like to think in the hundreds for Mature rated games. The Wii has...one? Two?
 
Strubes said:
Yeah...but the PS2 has what I'd like to think in the hundreds for Mature rated games. The Wii has...one? Two?

1st the ps2 is WAY OLDER thank you very much
2nd http://www.shopping.com/xPP-nintendo_wii_games--9433_mature + no more heroes and whatever comes next
3rd is been a year since it came out

not a lot i know but still not just one or 2 not that really matters anyway a game shouldnt be judged by its rating
 
*sigh*

We're not judging how good a game is by its rating. We're just merely pointing out the lack of Mature games Nintendo has put out. And if we're talking about that, Nintendo has 0.

Don't get so defensive just because we're talking about Nintendo Zidart. We're not saying they NEED to have Mature games, but we would welcome it if Nintendo decided to do some.
 
Strubes said:
*sigh*

We're not judging how good a game is by its rating. We're just merely pointing out the lack of Mature games Nintendo has put out. And if we're talking about that, Nintendo has 0.

Don't get so defensive just because we're talking about Nintendo Zidart. We're not saying they NEED to have Mature games, but we would welcome it if Nintendo decided to do some.

well sorry that i disagree with that >_> i don't see the point of why should nintendo make a bloody game if the ones that are T rated are mature enough with their themes.
 
Strubes said:
*sigh*

We're not judging how good a game is by its rating. We're just merely pointing out the lack of Mature games Nintendo has put out. And if we're talking about that, Nintendo has 0.

Don't get so defensive just because we're talking about Nintendo Zidart. We're not saying they NEED to have Mature games, but we would welcome it if Nintendo decided to do some.

Well said.

@ Zidart, because people who play games sometimes want games like that. If Nintendo cannot satisfy us in that respect, than we have no choice but to look elsewhere. It would actually be in Nintendo's best interest if they made an effort to appeal to those of us who like mature games, because then we would contributing to their profit by buying those kind of games.
 
Exactly, if only certain people are having a piece of that cake. Why can't everyone else?

Perfectly said Mai, if we are forced to look else where, then Nintendo is losing their original audience/fans that made them into what they are today.
 
Mai Valentine said:
Well said.

@ Zidart, because people who play games sometimes want games like that. If Nintendo cannot satisfy us in that respect, than we have no choice but to look elsewhere. It would actually be in Nintendo's best interest if they made an effort to appeal to those of us who like mature games, because then we would contributing to their profit by buying those kind of games.

but aren't their games already good enough? regardless of their rating (and seriously what's the big difference between T and M? just blood, nudity and or cussing) besides nintendo is the same as before the only difference is their wii franchise wich actually only have 3 games >_> everything else is grea.
 
well sorry that i disagree with that >_> i don't see the point of why should nintendo make a bloody game if the ones that are T rated are mature enough with their themes.

Because people love games like GTA4. GTA4 actually just recently made the Guiness Book of World Records for being the fastest selling game in 24 hours, topping out Halo 3.

Nintendo doesn't neccesiarily need mature themed titles. It's just that they'd be retaining a lot more customers.

One of the games I'm really looking forward to this Fall is Prototype (Thank god it's coming out on PC). Just like last gen, can you guess which system it's not coming out for? And I doubt the problem is graphical hardware or disc space.

Nintendo is severely limiting their audience. Why do you think Nintendo's consoles are the only ones with people going "I'm worried, there's no more AAA titles after (insert popular Nintendo game here), what'll we do afterward?" No other console has really had this problem.
 
Nova said:
Because people love games like GTA4. GTA4 actually just recently made the Guiness Book of World Records for being the fastest selling game in 24 hours, topping out Halo 3.

Nintendo doesn't neccesiarily need mature themed titles. It's just that they'd be retaining a lot more customers.

One of the games I'm really looking forward to this Fall is Prototype (Thank god it's coming out on PC). Just like last gen, can you guess which system it's not coming out for? And I doubt the problem is graphical hardware or disc space.

Nintendo is severely limiting their audience. Why do you think Nintendo's consoles are the only ones with people going "I'm worried, there's no more AAA titles after (insert popular Nintendo game here), what'll we do afterward?" No other console has really had this problem.

well that's it i hate games like GTA with that setting.

and if nintendo allowed games like manhunt 2, resident evil and no more heroes i'm sure the graphical hardware is the problem.

i think this is a ridiculous endless cycle, people keep saying "there's no way nintendo is getting M games" that leads developers to belive people won't buy M rated games on nintendo consoles and that's been happening since the NGC or maybe even before that, heck i'm happy that at least capcom and ubisoft are not so stupid and make their games on the wii.
 
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